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	<title>
	Comments on: Sydney CBD is bringing back pedestrian &#8220;beg buttons&#8221;	</title>
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	<link>https://jakecoppinger.com/2022/12/sydney-cbd-is-bringing-back-pedestrian-beg-buttons/</link>
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		<title>
		By: SiberianDev		</title>
		<link>https://jakecoppinger.com/2022/12/sydney-cbd-is-bringing-back-pedestrian-beg-buttons/#comment-1537</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[SiberianDev]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Feb 2024 08:37:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://jakecoppinger.com/?p=391#comment-1537</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://jakecoppinger.com/2022/12/sydney-cbd-is-bringing-back-pedestrian-beg-buttons/#comment-113&quot;&gt;David Lattimore&lt;/a&gt;.

That&#039;s actually the way it works in the Netherlands. The lights there in general are a lot more flexible. There are no phases, only during which movements can run. Instead, multiple movements can run at once, as long as they don&#039;t conflict with each other. And movements are combined based on the road users present.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://jakecoppinger.com/2022/12/sydney-cbd-is-bringing-back-pedestrian-beg-buttons/#comment-113">David Lattimore</a>.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s actually the way it works in the Netherlands. The lights there in general are a lot more flexible. There are no phases, only during which movements can run. Instead, multiple movements can run at once, as long as they don&#8217;t conflict with each other. And movements are combined based on the road users present.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Jake C		</title>
		<link>https://jakecoppinger.com/2022/12/sydney-cbd-is-bringing-back-pedestrian-beg-buttons/#comment-136</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jake C]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Jan 2023 08:41:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://jakecoppinger.com/?p=391#comment-136</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://jakecoppinger.com/2022/12/sydney-cbd-is-bringing-back-pedestrian-beg-buttons/#comment-119&quot;&gt;Benjamin Oaks&lt;/a&gt;.

Looking forward to hearing a well reasoned reply as a counterpoint to this blog post :)]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://jakecoppinger.com/2022/12/sydney-cbd-is-bringing-back-pedestrian-beg-buttons/#comment-119">Benjamin Oaks</a>.</p>
<p>Looking forward to hearing a well reasoned reply as a counterpoint to this blog post 🙂</p>
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		<title>
		By: Jake C		</title>
		<link>https://jakecoppinger.com/2022/12/sydney-cbd-is-bringing-back-pedestrian-beg-buttons/#comment-135</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jake C]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Jan 2023 08:39:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://jakecoppinger.com/?p=391#comment-135</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://jakecoppinger.com/2022/12/sydney-cbd-is-bringing-back-pedestrian-beg-buttons/#comment-118&quot;&gt;Ben&lt;/a&gt;.

&gt;  they need the commonsense function indicating that the lights will grant a walk cycle

I agree; this is an obvious missing piece of functionality.

&gt;  Many lights serve oneway streets, which could be partially automated to match the stopped traffic, but are programmed so pedestrians must always press and wait regardless.

I&#039;m interested in methods for mapping &amp; advocating for change of bad signal timing. My understanding is currently timing data is not open data unfortunately. Let me know if you hear of crowdsourced ways of measuring timing data!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://jakecoppinger.com/2022/12/sydney-cbd-is-bringing-back-pedestrian-beg-buttons/#comment-118">Ben</a>.</p>
<p>>  they need the commonsense function indicating that the lights will grant a walk cycle</p>
<p>I agree; this is an obvious missing piece of functionality.</p>
<p>>  Many lights serve oneway streets, which could be partially automated to match the stopped traffic, but are programmed so pedestrians must always press and wait regardless.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m interested in methods for mapping &#038; advocating for change of bad signal timing. My understanding is currently timing data is not open data unfortunately. Let me know if you hear of crowdsourced ways of measuring timing data!</p>
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		<title>
		By: Jake C		</title>
		<link>https://jakecoppinger.com/2022/12/sydney-cbd-is-bringing-back-pedestrian-beg-buttons/#comment-134</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jake C]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Jan 2023 08:37:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://jakecoppinger.com/?p=391#comment-134</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://jakecoppinger.com/2022/12/sydney-cbd-is-bringing-back-pedestrian-beg-buttons/#comment-127&quot;&gt;Michael&lt;/a&gt;.

Thanks very much for your European insight, interesting food for thought.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://jakecoppinger.com/2022/12/sydney-cbd-is-bringing-back-pedestrian-beg-buttons/#comment-127">Michael</a>.</p>
<p>Thanks very much for your European insight, interesting food for thought.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Michael		</title>
		<link>https://jakecoppinger.com/2022/12/sydney-cbd-is-bringing-back-pedestrian-beg-buttons/#comment-127</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Michael]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Dec 2022 21:46:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://jakecoppinger.com/?p=391#comment-127</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[As an immigrant from Europe:  these PB/5 units have been my frustration since my first day in Sydney.

I was blown away on my first day in Sydney when I immediately noticed the prioritisation of cars on crossings. I expected a European city but felt Sydney was nore like mix between what I had experienced in US and EU.

In many European cities they use solutions that indicate clearly by sound and light that the crossing is in automatic mode or has been activated by another pedestrian before you, and there is no need to touch the button &quot;just in case&quot;.

Most of these units don&#039;t offer a clear feedback of whether your touch/push was registered.  Leading to a popular &quot;give it a few more&quot; style of activating them.
The floppy button often feels like it&#039;s about to fall off and can&#039;t possibly be in working order.

The fact that the design encourages the use by feet came as a suprise to me since I never considered kicking them myself, and I feel it&#039;s another aspect of its poor design -&#062; peaple encouraged to touch the same surface that some people apparently kick with their dog poo covered shoes !?

From my previous experience as a pedestrian in some other western countries I assumed these aussi buttons are just an old but once popular antiquated design thats surely going to be replaced  soon (since many of them feel &quot;broken&quot; with the button flopping about). 
I was very surprised that Aussies are quite proud of them and they seem to be here to stay.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As an immigrant from Europe:  these PB/5 units have been my frustration since my first day in Sydney.</p>
<p>I was blown away on my first day in Sydney when I immediately noticed the prioritisation of cars on crossings. I expected a European city but felt Sydney was nore like mix between what I had experienced in US and EU.</p>
<p>In many European cities they use solutions that indicate clearly by sound and light that the crossing is in automatic mode or has been activated by another pedestrian before you, and there is no need to touch the button &#8220;just in case&#8221;.</p>
<p>Most of these units don&#8217;t offer a clear feedback of whether your touch/push was registered.  Leading to a popular &#8220;give it a few more&#8221; style of activating them.<br />
The floppy button often feels like it&#8217;s about to fall off and can&#8217;t possibly be in working order.</p>
<p>The fact that the design encourages the use by feet came as a suprise to me since I never considered kicking them myself, and I feel it&#8217;s another aspect of its poor design -&gt; peaple encouraged to touch the same surface that some people apparently kick with their dog poo covered shoes !?</p>
<p>From my previous experience as a pedestrian in some other western countries I assumed these aussi buttons are just an old but once popular antiquated design thats surely going to be replaced  soon (since many of them feel &#8220;broken&#8221; with the button flopping about).<br />
I was very surprised that Aussies are quite proud of them and they seem to be here to stay.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Robert		</title>
		<link>https://jakecoppinger.com/2022/12/sydney-cbd-is-bringing-back-pedestrian-beg-buttons/#comment-123</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Robert]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Dec 2022 22:00:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://jakecoppinger.com/?p=391#comment-123</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Stupid changing back to what wasn&#039;t very good in the first place. To think the morons at Transport for NSW believe this is a good idea. But they are just as dumb in Melbourne which leaves the obvious conclusion that the so called engineers/technicians that design this stuff must have learned during their training that pedestrian traffic signals are designed to be anti-pedestrian.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Stupid changing back to what wasn&#8217;t very good in the first place. To think the morons at Transport for NSW believe this is a good idea. But they are just as dumb in Melbourne which leaves the obvious conclusion that the so called engineers/technicians that design this stuff must have learned during their training that pedestrian traffic signals are designed to be anti-pedestrian.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Benjamin Oaks		</title>
		<link>https://jakecoppinger.com/2022/12/sydney-cbd-is-bringing-back-pedestrian-beg-buttons/#comment-119</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Benjamin Oaks]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Dec 2022 06:58:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://jakecoppinger.com/?p=391#comment-119</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[The author is a sooky lala]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The author is a sooky lala</p>
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		<title>
		By: Ben		</title>
		<link>https://jakecoppinger.com/2022/12/sydney-cbd-is-bringing-back-pedestrian-beg-buttons/#comment-118</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ben]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Dec 2022 03:11:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://jakecoppinger.com/?p=391#comment-118</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Despite our celebrated PB/5 buttons, they need the commonsense function indicating that the lights will grant a walk cycle. In NZ, they use PB/5s, but the walk/wait sign stays off until the press of a button. Other countries have large indicators near or on the button or the walk sign. 

And then there&#039;s the frequent poor placement or lack of the buttons themselves, sometimes hidden on a pole well away from the actual area to cross.

Also, unsurprisingly, Sydney signals are nearly always programmed to make pedestrians wait by default despite the local traffic or road conditions. Many lights serve oneway streets, which could be partially automated to match the stopped traffic, but are programmed so pedestrians must always press and wait regardless.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Despite our celebrated PB/5 buttons, they need the commonsense function indicating that the lights will grant a walk cycle. In NZ, they use PB/5s, but the walk/wait sign stays off until the press of a button. Other countries have large indicators near or on the button or the walk sign. </p>
<p>And then there&#8217;s the frequent poor placement or lack of the buttons themselves, sometimes hidden on a pole well away from the actual area to cross.</p>
<p>Also, unsurprisingly, Sydney signals are nearly always programmed to make pedestrians wait by default despite the local traffic or road conditions. Many lights serve oneway streets, which could be partially automated to match the stopped traffic, but are programmed so pedestrians must always press and wait regardless.</p>
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		<title>
		By: David Lattimore		</title>
		<link>https://jakecoppinger.com/2022/12/sydney-cbd-is-bringing-back-pedestrian-beg-buttons/#comment-113</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[David Lattimore]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Dec 2022 07:14:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://jakecoppinger.com/?p=391#comment-113</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[If we&#039;re optimising for quiet times of the day with minimal traffic, they could change the lights so that they&#039;re all red by default. Then when a pedestrian presses a button or a car arrives at the lights, that cycle can change to green straight away. This would mean pedestrians would need to press the button, but when it&#039;s quiet, they wouldn&#039;t have to wait at all.

Going even further, you could make all the vehicle signals red by default, all the pedestrian signals green by default and only switch the vehicle signals to green when a vehicle is detected, after switching the relevant pedestrian lights to red and after an appropriate delay.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If we&#8217;re optimising for quiet times of the day with minimal traffic, they could change the lights so that they&#8217;re all red by default. Then when a pedestrian presses a button or a car arrives at the lights, that cycle can change to green straight away. This would mean pedestrians would need to press the button, but when it&#8217;s quiet, they wouldn&#8217;t have to wait at all.</p>
<p>Going even further, you could make all the vehicle signals red by default, all the pedestrian signals green by default and only switch the vehicle signals to green when a vehicle is detected, after switching the relevant pedestrian lights to red and after an appropriate delay.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Simon		</title>
		<link>https://jakecoppinger.com/2022/12/sydney-cbd-is-bringing-back-pedestrian-beg-buttons/#comment-111</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Simon]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Dec 2022 02:15:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://jakecoppinger.com/?p=391#comment-111</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Drives me mad, especially when the traffic flow would have allowed an automatic green man - but no, pedestrians are clearly second class citizens in Sydney. Why change them back from the covid settings? This city is stupid.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Drives me mad, especially when the traffic flow would have allowed an automatic green man &#8211; but no, pedestrians are clearly second class citizens in Sydney. Why change them back from the covid settings? This city is stupid.</p>
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